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I'm probably wrong, but it seems like ever since John K. started a blog, there's been a lot of feuds and dicussions on the internet about the state of cartoons, which is the "right" way to make them, and what exactly makes a good cartoon, and so on. After seeing many arguments, I felt like I should state what I feel on the matter, even though I'm sure none of you care.

To fill things in to people who don't know what the hell i'm talking about, there seems to be two sides on the subject. There are people who think animation is the most important thing in making a cartoon, no matter how much sense the story doesn't make. This is where you get your shows like Ren and Stimpy and Cow and Chicken. Then there's people who put story in front of animation, and want something well-structured and deep as well as funny, and it's these shows where the animation takes a toll. Here's where you have your Simpsons and South Parks and etc. There also seems to be a sort of third ground (which isn't really referred to int he comic), where there's something written badly but funny, and animated when neccesary, such as Family guy, Drawn Together and most of the adult swim lineup.

Myself, I'm a fan of all these types of cartoons, and I don't really see a need for one type to dominate over others. When I watch a cartoon, I tend to know before hand what kind of cartoon I'm watching. I don't turn on South Park thinking " Oh man, I can't wait to see some dynamic visuals and brilliant animation!" And it's the same for when I watch a Bugs Bunny cartoon, which I dont watch with"oh, here's something that'll make me laugh AND think!" going through my mind. So why do other people seem to be doing this? Who the hell sees Aqua Teen Hunger Force for it's animation? I think there's two extremes, and one can live fine with the other.

But does that mean we all have to agree? Hell no! We need our John K's as much as we need our Seth MacFarlene's to keep a balance, to show how flexible the medium of animation is. Granted, things have been going towards the badly animated side in recent years, especially recent cartoon network crap, (for both kids and adults, so don't blame different age demographics), so we do need SOMETHING to balance things out. But I don't feel one thing should dominate. We need people who want crazy and surreal drawing in their work as much as people who won't start storyboards without a perfect script. And it's that balance that I think will keep people watching, no matter what kind of cartoon they're looking for.

As for what I want to get into, I'm a big fan of animated sitcoms, and of course I'd love to make my own. And if that doesn't make me a cartoonist in some people's eyes, than that's just how it is. But don't think for a second that I don't ever chill out in front Ren and Stimpy or Looney Tunes and laugh my ass off.

As for you, what do you want to make?

Update: I also want to bring up real quickly my thoughts on 3D animation vs 2D animation while I have your attention. My conclusion: apples and oranges, you can't compare the two. Its like comparing a sculpture to a painting, or claymation to 2D animation, they're just two different mediums in which to make art in. 3D's being overused now, but I still don't think 3D animation is a bad thing, just take a look at any pixar movie, they know what they're doing. And c'mon, there's been plenty of shitty 2D animated movies (remember Rock-a-Doodle? Once upon a Forest? Home on the Range?), so don't think this is a NEW thing here! I see 3D animation as just another medium, what people do with it is their own problem.


Bugs Bunny is (c) Warner Brothers
Eric Cartman is (c) Comedy Central
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:iconslyboyseth:
slyboyseth Featured By Owner Feb 9, 2013  Student Writer
Since most of the comments start with John K., I think I should first say that I haven't watched much of Ren & Stimpy as a kid, probably because I wasn't allowed to watch it along with Ed, Edd n Eddy, though more because I never saw much of it on the TV. Other shows that I have watched were the likes of CatDog, Spongebob, Animaniacs, Freakazoid, Aladdin, Hercules, The Little Mermaid (yes), Bonkers; basically everything that was on Toon Disney, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodean before they resorted to using young adults and teenagers for their channels. I often wanted to rent Alice in Wonderland and The Nightmare Before Christmas when the store that had them was still open.

As for the apparent argument about anime the comments included, I also remember watching the likes of Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Ruioni(sp?) Kenshin when I was younger. The only one that I actually keep close to my heart out of them all was Mobile Fighter G Gundam as it was giant robots fighting each other; I was born in the 90s so I wasn't influenced by Transformers. I've watched my fair share of Miyazaki films too and I own the likes of Kiki's Delivery Service and Princess Mononoke. Now that I'm older, I find my favorite genre of anime to be Mecha, but I would much rather like to stick to those that were well done like The Big O, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Shin Mazinger Z, New Getter Robo, and I hope to find more. I guess I can't really make a real debate about the issue of anime being used as an influence to animation nowadays, but I also recall that they got their influence from Eastern animation first and some of their animation was based off of Disney, so accusing cartoons of ripping off anime comes off as being redundant.

But then I started using the TV less and less when I began using the internet. Even when Toonami came back, I didn't spend much weeks watching it before heading back to the computer to watch what I want. Heck, while I watch Friendship is Magic, I don't see it all that often, I see it only on the computer since it strikes me more as an internet cartoon with a large budget, and the animation is interesting; hell I enjoy the fan art more than I do the show.

So yes, I wholeheartedly agree that we are free to watch what we want, no matter the genre. There isn't any need for arguments or fights simply because they differ or even because of philosophical standpoints. There's always something for someone.
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:iconadvanceddefense:
AdvancedDefense Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Hobbyist Filmographer
I see what you mean. I like a lot of toons. Even bad ones.
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:iconpepe-k:
Pepe-K Featured By Owner Sep 14, 2012
Personally, I think both John. K and Seth McDouchebag can go @#&*+! themselves. K made a big name for himself and sought to make himself an authority on all of animation and generally, no one listens to him cuz he's so intolerant and arrogant. He publicly hated Tiny Toons so much that he lost most of the fans he had. Only the first few Ren & Stimpy shows were any good.
Seth McDouchebag is just slime who is out to offend everybody and laugh all the way to the bank. I hate his crap.
I think there's plenty of room for all types of cartoons, although I have little tolerance for Adult Swim stuff that's just made for shock value and isn't funny.
I would make a cartoon series of my ATTEPUH novel series which is a big crossover series using TTA, LT, MGM, HB and some older anime. It's got all varieties of entertainment; comedy, drama, romance, thriller, adventure, tragedy, history, etc. I'd stay away from the Nickelodeon type "ugly-art" style and stick with good Silver Age WB and MGM style art and animation.
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:iconseerssword:
SeersSword Featured By Owner Jul 13, 2012   General Artist
>.>; True...
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:iconalkemyfreak:
AlkemyFreak Featured By Owner Jun 23, 2012
I expected Cartman to start a fight over not sharing. But I loved the end.
And I agree with what you said about the extremes in cartoons. Having different extremes really does keep the medium alive, and everyone will just have to live with that. Personally, there are things I don't like to watch, but I don't get into fights over if I think the animation is shoddy or the story is dull. I'll just change the channel.
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:icontheweirdgirlinclass:
theweirdgirlinclass Featured By Owner May 15, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
To me it's not fair that Ren and Stimpy: APC gets canned and SOUTH PARK stays.
SP has MORE disturbing stuff than APC
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:iconmephonic1:
mephonic1 Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2011  Student Writer
lol nice
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:icon01slayer87:
01Slayer87 Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2011
I like the piece and what you have to say. Great job.
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:iconroflo-felorez:
RoFlo-Felorez Featured By Owner Oct 24, 2011  Student Digital Artist
looks like they just have to deal with it :P
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:icongsnail:
GSnail Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
I never considered south park or the simpsons 'well written' Not that theres anything wrong with fart jokes...
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:iconsav8197:
sav8197 Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2011
great
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:iconshadowfan009:
shadowfan009 Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2011
faved it and loved it!
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:iconditkata:
ditkata Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2010
lol xD
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:iconmooseman1231:
Mooseman1231 Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2010
that made me die laughin and i care about what you feel on the matter great job!!!! :)
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:iconraygreens:
Raygreens Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2009
I agree with you 100%, but please tell me that you think the idea of putting reality TV on cartoon network is a stupid idea.
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:iconhixdei-love:
hixdei-love Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2010  Student Digital Artist
i agree
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:iconraygreens:
Raygreens Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2010
Thankyou!
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:iconhixdei-love:
hixdei-love Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2010  Student Digital Artist
lol
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:iconmomoyoy:
Momoyoy Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2009
Two heartless assholes living together.
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:iconbegleythejoker:
begleythejoker Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2009
:XD: Go Bugs!
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:iconstripedfoxx:
stripedfoxx Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2009
I agree with you almost to a T. The only thing I disagree with you on is about Family Guy being a funny show. But other than that, you make some wonderful points.

I loved how Ren and Stimpy had these wonderful expressions and designs even though there wasn't a story. But then there's something like Cowboy Bebop with choppy animation but remarkable character development. I think that there's a good balance that can be achieved to making an animated cartoon both beautiful to watch AND sink your teeth into!

Batman the Animated Series, now THAT's a good example of animation perfection.
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:iconmouseavenger:
MouseAvenger Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2009  Hobbyist Filmographer
Well....if you ask me, I love all kinds of cartoons (& some anime), no matter how or why they're made or who they're made for, & as long as they entertain me or inspire me or delight or amuse me in some way, I'm perfectly fine with it. :D Golden Age, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's--you name it, I'll probably like or love it! :D (Though I tend to lean more towards those rated PG-13 or less... ^^; And I mainly watch Nick for Fairly Oddparents & SpongeBob, which seems to be the only interesting stuff they have on these days...all the other good stuff they used to play is on Nicktoons TV. :( ) In any case, I really think there's no wrong way...to make a cartoon. ;)

And c'mon, there's been plenty of shitty 2D animated movies (remember Rock-a-Doodle? Once upon a Forest? Home on the Range?)...

Ummm....would you be affronted if I said that I personally love those movies you mentioned (with all my heart, even) & do not consider them to be "sh--ty" or terrible? ^^; I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion, of course, but the way you expressed it seemed to be cutting it a...little harsh, IMO. Oh, well, no hard feelings; to each his/her own. :shrug:
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:iconhydraman123:
Hydraman123 Featured By Owner Jun 17, 2009
true, true... if everyone agrees on everything, there would be no individuality and the world would be boring as hell
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:iconlightorangefur:
LightOrangeFur Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2009  Student General Artist
tis very true. Nice message there.
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:iconmanilovemyphone:
manIlovemyphone Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2009
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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:icontooneguy:
ToonEGuy Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2009  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
You make a good point. John K. is obviously a very talented guy and seems to be very knowledgeable and experienced in animation, but it just pains me too much when I try reading his blog and he makes such harsh remarks about all the other cartoons that I love. After all, I didn't grow up with JUST "Ren & Stimpy" in the 90's! I also grew up with cartoons like "The Simpsons", "Tiny Toon Adventures", and "Aladdin" (all of which are some of the most criticised cartoons on his blog). But you know, I can't help it if I like that stuff. It just means I have more variety in my animation. If you don't like what your competition is doing then just focus on making cartoons the way YOU believe they should be, but since John isn't doing any real work right now he comes across as being a bitter man who grew up in a very old time and has nothing better to do but write on his blog and complain about other people's work. The only thing I do agree with him on is the loss of quality in most of today's cartoons, with stiff, mechanical, and sometimes badly done animation that looks too apalling to take any real interest in, but I think limited animation can still be okay if the characters look appealing and have enough of a fluid feel to them.
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:iconboogazoo:
BoogaZoo Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2009
Halarious (:
Reply
:iconthecrimsonemo:
TheCrimsonEmo Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2009  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
haha nice =P
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:iconmrweld:
MrWeld Featured By Owner Dec 25, 2008  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I remember Once Upon A Forest, I still have it in my VCR collection.
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:iconlars-kun:
Lars-kun Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2008
hahahahhaha cartman was awsome
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:iconsuperleviathan:
SuperLeviathan Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
How do get that distinct no-outline look on Cartman. It looks like the show, but mixed in with your style.

Bugs looks kinda strange, however.
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:iconmaxtaro:
Maxtaro Featured By Owner Jul 13, 2008
John K. has mostly been a great cartoonist, except when it comes to blogging. He even thinks Nurse Stimpy and Who Framed Roger Rabbit are the ugliest cartoons he's ever seen, as well. Well, I'd call this picture ugly: [link] Sure the colour is good, but it would scare the living :poo: out of little kids!
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:icontailsmo4eva22:
tailsmo4eva22 Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2008
lolz thats rlly awesome!!!!
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:iconcodwars:
CodWars Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2008  Hobbyist Artist
John K is an asshole!!
I'm so sick of hearing about him..
he's no genius!! Don't listen to him HE'S A USER!!!

he's a user! he used a friend of mine long ago and spit her out like she was nothing...

telling her how awful her work was on this and that and she just dropped him and no longer wants to talk to him because of his spitful ways...
you know how hurt she was? don't you?! from this man that everyone worships? when up close he's a mean un greatful bastard I hate him so much!!!

do you know how much it costs to make animation? for adding details? shit like that?!
no he never mentions the money all he bitchs about is how people can't come up with they're own work...

thanks john k...
thanks for being the most ungreatful bastard....
stupid shit!
Reply
:icontoonsinacan:
ToonsInACan Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2007
I can kind of agree with what your saying.

People often stereotype and group things together to make the situation easier for them to understand it. But unfortunately deep down there is more to it than people are willing to grasp. There is a reason why golden age cartoons are more about the motion than an epic storyline, back then they were still experimenting with character personality/ interaction. Ultimately aiming to create an illusion of life with mere drawings.

And this is where I'm probably going to alienated in the discussion. I personally disagree with any comments about "storyline" being number 1 because it isn't, "character personality" is what really hooks a crowd. No matter what style, you can look at any of your favourite movies or tv series or pod casts and the first thing I bet is most understandable is how easy you can react to the characters on the show/movie/whatever.
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:iconwastelandsofthemind:
wastelandsofthemind Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2007  Student Writer
Arguements in general are rather annoying. I try to ignore them, myself.
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:iconfunkyjoe356:
funkyjoe356 Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2007  Hobbyist Filmographer
this is no piss me off lad is awsome actually funny
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:iconololololololol:
ololololololol Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2007
panel no.2 Cartmans expression....priceless
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:iconasrielsensan:
AsrielSenSan Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2007
I just now read this and I think to myself, "I never looked at it in that light.

As for what I want to make. Heh...I'll let you know when I find out.
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:iconbright-as-a-button:
bright-as-a-button Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2007
luvin it dude!!!
Reply
:iconbackgroundbailey:
BackgroundBailey Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2007  Student
Nice. But you forgot the fourth ground; good animation AND good story. Batman: The Animated Series anyone?
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:iconsonofpeter:
SonOfPeter Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2007
Me too loves all genre of cartoons :heart: !!! Expecially Family Guy :XD:
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:iconkaitoraikan:
Kaitoraikan Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2007
LOL XD SO TRUE !!!
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:iconlunore:
Lunore Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2007  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
AUUUGH! I hate the 2d Vs. 3d thing. People are claiming 2d is obsolete! I can't understand that, like you said, different mediums. While 3d can be awesome, handdrawn art has a type of soul and quirkyness 3d can't (at least yet) duplicate.
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:icondr-baconman:
Dr-Baconman Featured By Owner Jul 4, 2007
This is another one of those scenarios where the Artist's Comments impact me much more than the picture itself.
Reply
:iconvegaboralis:
VegaBoralis Featured By Owner Jul 4, 2007   Writer
I say people can make cartoons however they want, but I do normally enjoy the older ones to the newer ones, as in, Bugs Bunny>South Park. I don't find South Park that funny that often, but that's mostly because South park is not my type of humor. Anyway...


This is a funny little comic thing. Kinda pointless, but entertaining.
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:iconcrazy4cappy:
crazy4cappy Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2007
i read all of your comment and didn't understand only 3 of the words :D
Reply
:iconjamesprower:
jamesprower Featured By Owner Jun 12, 2007
Ahem, Yeah, About this...
....
....
....
....
A-fucking-MEN my friend!

I have nothing more to say.
:+fav:
Reply
:iconomiwako:
omiwako Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2007  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
:lol: this is kinda one one of those things that makes you laugh(the pic) and then think(what you wrote)and its the same every where you go example: people are listening to girlfriend from avril's new album and thats it they dont have the common seance to listen to the rest of the album because they think that song is crap but the rest of the songs on the album are not like that one they are bubbley and have fast beats yes but the rest have atleast SOME story behind them but they sit there and say"avril's not punk any more(witch she only was on under my skin anyway)her music sucks and has no meaning anymore"and they wont even give the other songs a chance god that ticks me off
Reply
:iconchibikeba:
ChibiKeba Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2007
I agree 100% with everything you just said. I don’t think I watch ANY original Adult Swim cartoons for their art, I just find them hilarious as hell. About the only thing I’ve watched simply for the art or animation is some Japanimation, though the 1980’s and 1990’s animes had pretty good storylines on top of the quality animation. I can’t really vouch for the newer stuff as it seems that they’ve reduced the quality of the animation along with the quality of the storytelling but that’s just my opinion on that one.

Invader Zim is another show that’s fun to watch simply for its animation, but it’s equally as well written and funny as it is pretty to look at. There aren’t many shows that meet those standards, but I’m not for axing anything that doesn’t = pwnage in all areas.

BTW sorry for the ramble, this comic is awesome :XD:
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